In this episode we’re talking Biden versus Trump!
“China is here but America is not. When it should be because there is a common history.”
“Who’s to say, how do you know Obama never said that? Or any other president never said that?”
“The two leaders addressed three topics and they all have an economic or financial focus”
Claude:
Welcome to Limitless, the podcast that asks the questions that matter for Africa.
In each episode, we ask three guests about one issue that matters to Africans. We’re looking for African solutions to African problems.
The Limitless Podcast is supported by the U.S. Department of State and the Seenfire Foundation.
Alongside Senegal, South Africa, Botswana, Ghana, Rwanda, the US heads to the polls this year. I asked three journalists which US presidential candidate would be best for Africa. So are you ready, drum roll please, stepping into the ring…. it’s Trump Versus Biden!
First commentator on this match of titans is Francis Kpatinde, former editor of Jeune Afrique and now a political commentator at le Monde among other publications. I asked him exactly the same question: which candidate Trump or Biden do you think is best for Africa?
Francis:
I’m going to surprise you and say neither of them. Why? Because neither one is really interested in Africa. Mr Trump, in his typical flowery language, called certain african countries, “shithole countries”.
He sent the first lady on a trip to Africa but it wasn’t very memorable, it was basically a tourist trip.
And for Biden, well, he promised to go to Africa but his term is about to end and we’re not sure he’ll have a second one. And he still hasn’t yet visited Africa. It’s true that the Secretary of State has come to Africa a few times but it’s not enough. And there’s nothing memorable in that. There’s nothing serious to be expected from either president.
Claude:
Anthony Blinken the secretary of state, came to Africa in January 2023 to maintain USA’s influence on the continent. Do you think the strategy to strengthen ties between Africa and the USA has been successful?
Francis:
I think Mr Anthony Blinken is passionate about Africa, he’s an Africaphile – but is it on a personal level or on a state level? He has made several visits to Africa, including the one you mentioned, but I think the USA in general has very little interest in Africa. Whether under Trump or Biden. We don’t really feel it.
We know they are in Africa to maintain their strategic interests, to maintain access to resources, particularly petrol, to protect their citizens and embassies and other interests, and to fight violent extremists. Since Biden’s arrival, they also have another motivation; USA has tried to increase its presence in Africa to fight Chinese influence.
China is here, undoubtedly, but America is not. When it should be because there is a common history, a dramatic one, that of the slave trade.
There are many African Americans but there are also Africans who have migrated to America, in increasing numbers. The American presence should be stronger. There are many Senegalese in America and for many years, the US played an important role in Senegalese politics. Biden and Blinken have intervened several times in order that the Senegalese President respect the constitution
Claude:
Why do you think that the US is not interested in Africa?
Francis:
I think basically, Africa does not have enough strategic interest for America, even if there is a violent historical link between Africa and America.
If African Americas were more interested in Africa, it could awaken the interest of the American government. I’ll give you an example to prove what I have said. The Republic of South Sudan was created from the pieces, the splitting apart and divison of Sudan. That republic was created because of the Black caucus. Because many black Americans at the time of John Garang went to the southern parts of Sudan and saw that the Arab and Muslim majority of the north oppressed the Christian animists of the south, who were black. South Sudan would never have been created without the intervention of the black caucus, the African American congressmen and deputies.
Claude:
Next up is Yinka Adegoke, a seasoned journalist who’s been writing about tech and business across the continent for decades. He’s currently editor of the media platform Semafor Africa. He’s Nigerian British but lives in New York City. Here’s our conversation.
So obviously topic A in America and, in some parts of the world even, is Trump versus Biden. Which one do you think is better suited to the aspirations of Africans as they look to grow economically?
Yinka:
I think people who are close to geopolitics, or US – Africa geopolitics will be unsurprised that I… Will be unsurprised by my answer because I think that they probably think something similar. Which is basically that there’s very little difference…
Claude:
Between Trump and Biden?
Yinka:
Yes, there’s very little difference. Your question was about policy right?
Claude:
And policy towards Africa specifically.
Yinka:
US Africa policy: That’s where there’s little difference right. In the real substance of what we’re talking about. Because obviously Trump and Biden as candidates are obviously quite different. In terms of the substance of policy, US Africa policy, when you really look under the hood, there isn’t a big difference.
There’s a big difference in the way it’s communicated. It sounds very much like Biden is, as he would say it, all in on Africa. He says many of the right things that you would hope to hear from a US president. And you know, Trump is, you know, Trump. But in terms of actual policy, the US… Much of it is really about the way the Us is sort of set up. They’re not set up to operate at the levels at which they can really be practical and helpful to many African countries in the way that they need them to be.
China and some of the other powers can offer far more practical help. What the United States is trying to do now is to sort of rework the way they approach Africa. In that case, you could say yes, the Biden team definitely has sort of got the message. But how that plays out in reality is where really what I’m focused on is and here’s the thing I have no idea how this plays out if Trump Wins because you know all bets are off. It’s going to be a very different type of presidencies that is the is what people broadly think and there will be a lot more focused on domestic policy and that could have all kinds of impacts on foreign policy.
Claude:
But you write about this all the time and Trump gets criticized for having called certain african countries ‘shithole countries’ right? And and that’s what a lot of people remember and Biden often gets criticized for not having gone to Africa as President.
Yinka:
Here’s my most controversial take on the Trump S-hole countries thing… Who’s to say how do you or I know Obama never said that or any other president never said that? Yeah, they might have. We just didn’t hear about it because you know that person wasn’t because you know didn’t have all this terrible stories about them and all this other awful things they said and all these other awful things they did.
I feel that’s kind of an obvious distraction. Let’s see what the person actually did right? Because actually if you look at various American presidents and their records with Africa, it feels like they didn’t take Africa seriously anyway for many of them. The one US-Africa policy that everyone sort of in the US cites, I mean celebrates, is PEPFAR right? And that’s George W Bush. He’s very rarely… Outside of discussions about PEPFAR, very few people think about him as some great Africa supporter, He’s not the first name that comes to mind. But he’s had the most successful US – Africa policy.
PEPFAR was the project which the United States launched to support people with HIV. It was really successful at getting retrovirals and other medicines out to people across Africa.
Claude:
Our third commentator is also an experienced journalist. Jose Gama is from Angola, a country in which the USA is investing heavily. Our journalist Nekane de Ozamiz spoke to him.
Nekane:
What policies does the United States of America have towards Africa currenlty?
Jose:
Currently, the United States has a strategy and policy of building economic corridors.
It chose Angola, in this case, to build the Lobito corridor, which is a railway line that will connect the Democratic Republic of Congo, passing through Zambia and by Angola through the municipality of Lobito.
And this corridor will be used to transport materials like Cobalt, which the US uses for the manufacture of batteries,.
It is investing around 2 billion dollars in Angola.
The United States also has the African Growth and Opportunity Act – the AGOA policy – in Africa that aims to reduce or cut some taxes or exempt some products, especially in all countries that are here in sub-Saharan Africa.
Nekane:
Last November, the Angolan president, Joao Lourenzo, and his North American Counterpart Joe Biden, met at the White House. In your opinion, what could they do to create stronger and better ties with Africa?
Jose:
The two leaders spoke about the infrastructure project that President Biden has with Africa, and with Angola in particular.
In general, they addressed three topics and they all have an economic or financial focus. This means that the United States and Angola are at a stage where the Biden administration, which is very pro democratic values, tries not to disturb Angola on human rights issues or on political reform issues.
In the last three years, relations with Angola have focused on the economy.
Nekane:
The program’s question is which president of the United States of America is best for Africa, Trump or Biden? Could Donald Trump’s possible return to the White House bring substantial changes in the relationship between the United States and Africa?
Jose:
A positive aspect of Biden’s leadership is investments and presidential initiatives for the construction of infrastructure across Africa.
And this will contribute to the country’s economy. It will contribute to development and the creation of more jobs, in the case of Angola, Zambia and also the DRC.
Trump is an unknown quantity because in the past, in his previous term there was a freeze, there was a stop. He didn’t pay attention to Africa.
So it is possible that in his next term Trump may change his attitude and look a little more at the whole continent. Relations with Trump may have an open door character, and be more focused on the economics.
Claude:
Thanks to all our guests. We’ll see what happens in November. Regardless of who becomes American president, there is no question that more attention needs to be given to the role of the United States in Africa’s development. That’s what we’re trying to do with Limitless.
In the meantime, please share this episode with anyone who might be interested. And as always, we’d love to hear what you think. Get in touch on social media, using the hashtag #limitlessafrica.
